I’ve read your post and the many responces you have gotten

My heart goes out to you. It’s bad enough that your sister has been so nasty to you, but doublely so when you were going through heart surgery and needed her support. It’s really sad but when involved in MLM not much else matters. My son is in Quixtar and I know of two people in his line that have gone away to a conference the last three years when it was their children’s birthdays. So, yes I’m afraid that their MLM becomes their first priority. Quixtar tells them that by
going to meetings, conferences, and especially all the time spent recuiting, that they are building their business so that they’ll be able to spend more time with their families in the future. My reaction to that is they will never be able to get back the time they lost with them no matter what. And yes, they are guilted into going to all functions. It keeps them “Plugged In” (I call it brainwashed).
They say it sets a good example for their downline. I call that a way to make more money for people at the top. Negative? Hell yes, to us, but they convince everyone that everything they do is positive. The negativity comes from the outside, us. But just what if someone decided NOT to go to a function, buy books or CDs (the tools you need to build your business) or decide to leave the business? I would bet a lot of negativity would be said from the uplines. But of course they are just trying to help them build their business.

Categories: MLM, money, Quixtar

You’ve missed the point

When someone is recovering from surgery, the focus is on them. It’s not a time to give a gift that is about recruiting. It’s a time to give a gift that says, “I care about you.”
Period. End of statement. “I care about you.” Not, “I care about you BUT if you like it, you can join me.” Roxy had already told her she didn’t want to be a distributor previously. It’s a loaded gift and it’s clear at that point it’s not about, “I hope you get better,” it’s about, “Here’s a gift from my stuff and I want you to know about it.”
If you don’t see the difference, then you’re missing something big and important in terms of human needs and behavior.

Categories: MLM, money

No way intended to offend you by misquoting or

mistaking what you were saying concerning your sister. I think it is a perfect way for your sister to involve you in something she is passionate about without putting on the pressure to buy. If you like it.. you will get more I guess.
I am just trying to absorb what is being said and not trying to become completely close minded about MLM’s in general, because I don’t think you can lump them all together, especially in light of a company like Avon becoming multi level. They have been around forever, and I remember my mom going door to door selling it before there was such a think as the internet and there weren’t Avon ladies on every corner back then.
I can understand the purpose of the blog is to protect those who feel victimized or affected by MLM’s, but should we become as obstinant about all MLM’s being bad as proponents of them claim they are all good?
I am here to objectively gather info in general because I have had so many different family members involved in different things…but basically it seems like the business model is a viable one in theory and I just don’t see much wrong with self promotion. If your sister owned a steak house (and it was a franchise even) she would probably tell you to come on down and eat there…no one would argue that you should support her. Granted I don’t know a thing about her MLM, because I have no personal experience with them…maybe they are not financially viable for their prospects.
Is there room in this blog for someone to be truly openminded and open to the possibility that not all MLM’s are created equal?

Categories: MLM

MLMs definitely have many of the traits that you see in cults

Not all of them but enough to make you go….hmmmmm. And you are right, distributors are taught that they will run up against opposition AND they are told exactly how to deal with them. The most common thing told to them (over and over and over and over again) is that anyone ANYONE who doesn’t support your business is against you. Is a negative influence on your life and not someone you need in your life. They are taught to put the business ahead of family for now (because it will pay off later). Baby showers, anniversaries and birthdays have been missed. Marriages and relationships have ended.

Like others have said, at this point, she’s in hook/line/sinker and there’s not a whole lot you can do or say without getting blamed for something. I don’t know if I’d fan the flames any by sending the gift back…that won’t accomplish anything positive.

I’m with the person who said to keep your distance for abit. She’s got to work this out (though it could take years).

PW often says that the only thing you can really do is ask questions and be truly interested in the answers. Questions that if she allowed herself to think for a moment and find the actual answers, it might put a chink in the solid hold MLM has on her. I believe there is a list somewhere of the questions to ask….stuff like, how much money does one actually make after subtracting expenses?

Though I’ve discovered from personal experience that some of these questions are greeted with the same reactions that you got when asking about pyramid schemes. I had a SIL in PPL and after I told her NO in no uncertain terms she advised me that I need to be more open minded in order to see something of value…lol. When I asked her to quantify what her sponsor was making (rather than the typical…he’s doing so well) – and if she had proof, she sort of freaked and refused to talk to me for months.

Know that many of us can very much relate to what you are experiencing. Always know you can find support here.

Categories: finance, MLM

I am sorry you had to go thru that and right around surgery, jeeeze

I will just have to come right out and say it, you’re sister was wrong for doing that. Why would you need a face kit for a gift after surgery? Yes, she is brain washed. I was never pushed into doing the biz right off the bat like she was. However, after a few months the upline I used to be apart of would start selling the biz to me. “If I don’t sell the biz, I will be cut off from upline support and training”. That meant totally. Which I was. How convenient.

Arbonne provides, self help programs to get people to do their biz more. That is what I experienced and I didn’t like it. You can find similar self help programs else where without them. Btw, the car you supposedly get isn’t even yours fully. It is a leasing program! You do not get to choose what color either. It is white and that is it. Supposedly they picked white for purity of product ect and blah blah blah. I was not going to work my ass off for a car I would not even fully own! The only thing good was the ASAP points for the jewelry and then I found out the jewelry was not real until you get to the top. Well at least I got a coffee pot and a boom box out of it. Both nice, but standard. You have to buy so much arbonne a month to get anything. So they where expensive. The chrystal pic frames are the smallest frames 4×6 or less I believe. I never went on a cruise with arbonne so I can’t tell you about that. Just the fact that they went to places I have already been to
and they went to places I was not into.

Categories: MLM, Quixtar

The book might be a useful idea

but if you take it to a meeting, once you start handing it out, you’ll be asked to leave and they’re pretty much ready for that.

In most recruiting meetings they make a point of saying, “When you talk about this, people will tell you it won’t work. Do you want to know why? Because they’re jealous and want to steal your success.”

That one statement “inoculates” many people against any statements of reason that could go against the lies told in the recruitment meeting.

Categories: company, finance, MLM

I have been involved in several MLMs over the years

I was a single parent raising four sons! I was very gullible and did what I was told to do because I wanted a better life for my children. I went to the rallies. I bought the books and tapes. I spent money I did not have to meet the expectations of my upline. Guess what… It never worked. I never made the kind of money the big wigs were always talking about.
This went on for about 20 years! My advise to anyone thinking of getting invovled in MLM is this. DO! NOT! risk your home or your vehicle or your basic necessities for survival to go to a meeting or rally or convention! It is not worth it! You will regreat it! Think about the choices you make. Good business practices do not include guilt tactics and threats and allienation from the group if you do not do the business as fast as they say everyone else is. Thank You for letting me post.

Categories: MLM, money

I certainly appreciate your drive to gather information

I have posted before, my criteria for judging MLMs. In my book, they are bad if they satisfy any of the following: (I will explain why if you are interested)

1. Require you to buy product to be a distributor.
2. Require any “training” for the job.
3. Require you to “qualify” at some level(in recruitment OR sales) in order to get commissions.

I am not personally familiar(other than this forum and google) with Mary Kay or Avon, Tupperware or the jewellery thing – but I’d be interested to know if they meet any of the above.(My attempt to gather information).

Categories: MLM, money

This is how many MLMs work

They abuse the trust we have in our friends and family and build up the new trust we create (or is created for us) in the new “friends” we make in our business. And if we manage to bring friends and family into the business, they use that existing trust to turn us against those who said “no.”

Some of our friends (my wife’s and mine) simply had to wait it out until we quit. Some of them had even said, “We’ll see you in five years or so.” They could not have been more right.

Sadly, some people stay involved far longer than five years.

But I think the only way to get someone to reconsider the wisdom of what they’re doing, critically, is to ask them the questions they should be asking themselves. Once they realize what has been happening, it’s truly like “seeing the light,” like “watching the fog lift.”

There are steps and stages involved in leaving an MLM, too, so the best thing you can do, even if you’re unable to get through to your sister, is to be there when she quits. *This* is how you can help!
Be loving and accepting. Don’t offer anything resembling “I told you so.” She is going to be going through feelings of guilt and inadequacy. We hear it here all the time: “How could I have been so stupid as to have fallen for this scam, even as my friends (or in this case, sister) were telling me to beware of it?”

You may not be able to help her get out sooner, but you can help her through the post-MLM process. As long as you can understand what she’s going through, she will value your support. We are here, primarily, to facilitate and support that.

Categories: finance, MLM

Communism is nice, in theory

Some say that in theory a bumble bee can’t fly. The key words are “in theory.” I have a program in my text editor right now that is doing everything perfectly so, “in theory” it should communicate with the radio I have hooked up to my computer, but it doesn’t.

The reason we use the words “in theory” is because there is a difference between theory and reality. Reality includes millions of factors that humans can’t account for in theory and one of the most complex factors is humans themselves. MLMs look good on paper, but they also have a structure that is perfect for abuse. One person can build their own cult out of their downline and, in most cases, that’s exactly what happens.

Self promotion isn’t the issue, self promotion at a time when one should be thinking of others is an issue. There is a time and place for everything. (Just look up the lyrics to “Turn, Turn, Turn” or find it in the Bible for a refresher.)

This is a logical fallacy, or a flaw in your reasoning. You’re substituting “steak house” for Arbonne and you seem to think that draws a fair parallel. It does not. For example, you could replace “Arbonne” or “steak house” with brothel and it becomes a different situation — and before you say, “But those are illegal,” all we have to do to deal with that is say it’s in Nevada. A steak house is a completely different situation from Arbonne. Records and reports of abusive and brainwashing tactics are rife for Arbonne.

So, since you’re considering all this objectively, why don’t you listen to people who have dealt with MLMs, including Arbonne, personally? You said you were here to gather information and Roxy just gave you a ton of information about what’s going on with Arbonne, yet rather than absorb it, you want to tell her it’s wrong.

I love that. “Truly open minded.” Just gotta love it. In other words, since we disagree with your view point we’re not open minded.

Many of us were open minded and that’s how we learned that MLMs don’t work. You’ve got well over a hundred years of personal experience with QS (one of the biggest MLMs) alone. We were open minded until we learned what ripoffs they are.

Open minded does not mean ignoring the facts. You are essentially claiming you’re open minded and we aren’t. Since you’re open minded, then you won’t mind checking on the sites we use to post the down side of MLMs, would you? Since you’re open minded, it won’t bother you that over 99% of people that join an MLM lose money instead of making it, will it?

See, open minded does not mean staying open to something when the numbers, facts, and experience show it’s bad. If MLM were worth being open minded, then more than .5% of the people who go in to them would be able to make a living at it. Open minded does not mean ignoring facts once they’ve been established.

One last point: Roxy pointed out a lot of issues with her sister in her post. She pointed out how her sister’s behavior and personality changed, how her sister could now only talk about one subject and how her whole life is consumed with one subject. She gave us many points that showed that there were serious problems with what Arbonne was doing to her sister.

Why didn’t you address any of those? Why pick one point only and ignore the many that show that there is something seriously wrong with the situation?

If you respond, I expect an answer to that question. Avoiding it will only let us know that you’re not as open minded as you claim because you’re going to deal only with the points you want to deal with and ignore anything that disproves what you want to believe.

Categories: MLM

I found a site through a Google search

that had some indicators that a MLM is not going to be profitable or that money is not being made on sales of product to customers if certain criteria exist. Paying beyond I think four levels, they said they profits are coming from overpricing product and purchases made by those in the MLM. And it is an MLM if it has levels and layers of commissions and bonuses.. can’t really argue that.
Don’t remember the site but they showed up in the top page of results, so they would be easy to find if you searched for it.

Categories: MLM, money

Please read till the end it’s brief

Time to come clean. I am a customer in what you would consider an MLM company. Although they don’t consider themselves MLM, but there is commission on 7 generations…

I think you are all right in what you say but at the moment I am in denial… I say to myself things like: “Well, it was time to start buying better products, to look after ourselves. It was probably time to buy better vitamins. I have always claimed to care for the environment, time to put my money where my mouth is, etc”

After a second attempt at doing the Business side; I have come to the conclusion *all by myself* that you sell people the business in order just to gain customers. It’s very aspirational. Then after reading all of Roxy’s postings I saw Hal spell it out “they are not selling [beauty] PRODUCTS but they are selling OPORTUNITY”. So thank you for that, Hal.

The reason I am confused is because, I can see in me a lot of what you guys are saying, yet I am not ready to give it up.

Someone, (Watkins I think) wrote a while ago that his time in MLM had given him high self esteem. I am sort of in it because of the personal development side: personal sales, presenting, picking up the phone etc, definitely pushes me out of my comfort and into my development zone.

I am a SAHM with a 4 year old and a baby that is not 1 yet. Hence touched by Deb’s wisdom ref family not waiting. So my not-MLM MLM, gives me some mental stimulation and adult interaction but also plenty of disappointment which I bag under the name of “learnings”.

I am enjoying the products, I know that penny for penny I am spending more or at best I am static (I do get about 15% of my consumption bill back from my commission pay) but from that to making profit…requires some very serious effort and qualities that right now are probably not in me. I see it as a very long term thing and an investment of time, but can’t deny that it would be nice to be there when the exponential growth kicks in or to recruit an “Ace”.

What do you all think? Keen to read your replies and also, can you guess which company I mean? Please be kind, I am vulnerable.

Categories: MLM